Is Greece laying the groundwork for how debt ridden countries will manage in the future? Will they follow Greece’s Potato Movement example?

It’s no real surprise that the Greek people face an uncertain future with a degree of stoicism.

After all it is a Greek word, a philosophy founded on the principles espoused by Zeno of Citium and taught in Athens around 300BC.

What is surprising is that a proportion of Stoic principle is so un-Greek. Zeno taught that people should be free from passion, unmoved by joy or grief, and submit without complaint to unavoidable necessity.

Greeks free from passion? Not something I would have thought would ever catch on here. To see a Greek person holding forth on almost any subject, be it football, food, finance or family, is to behold a whirlwind of extravagant gestures, a multitude of facial expressions and a verbal bombardment of unbridled opinion.

OK, so the current economic situation could not in all conscience be declared unavoidable necessity, but it’s the Greek in the Street who is bearing the brunt of reform. One who works hard, pays his taxes and is seeing his wages cut by perhaps 30%.

With prices rising in the shops, and new taxes being introduced, ends are not only not meeting, but moving further apart.

Nonetheless, there is stoicism. More in the currently accepted definition, that there is adversity that must be met and difficulties to be overcome, and the Greeks are making a good fist of it.

I recently travelled to Larissa on the Greek mainland, in an area of large agricultural production. Potato farmers there have formed co-operatives to market their produce, bypassing the wholesalers and bringing goods to the consumers at more affordable prices. There is talk of apple producers doing the same. They are finding new ways to mitigate the impact of reform.

The shops in Larissa bustled, the cafes thronged. People just tried to get on with their lives. However, a doctor I spoke to was fearful about cuts in health services, and she was uncertain whether she could afford to continue working here, suggesting that a move to a more ‘developed’ country may be her only option.

This is a big part of the Greek tragedy. Those with desirable and transferable skills may end up leaving, and the country will be poorer if they do.

Ultimately, the Greek situation is an experimental work-in-progress. This will form the model for the next failed economy, and of course there will be more than one to come. Be it Portugal, Italy, Ireland or Spain, it can be no surprise that whatever happens in Greece is likely to be replicated elsewhere when the EU moguls come calling.

All of that means if you take your holidays in Tuscany, the Algarve, the Costas or in Wicklow, you would do well to pay attention to the Greeks, as this may be a portent of things to come.

And as for Zeno of Citium? Because he was a foreigner in Athens, being Byzantine Cretan by birth, he also gave rise to the word Xenophobia, an unreasonable fear of that which is foreign or strange. Again, from personal experience something which the Greeks as a whole cannot be accused of.

Maybe he went from Zeno to hero to zero….

Glossa is starting to wake up from winter, we’re in the middle of Lent of course but still only 2 restaurants open until at least after Easter, and the car ferry has only just started again. But on the plus side, the sun has started to shine after one of the longest and wettest winters most people can remember!

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As I sit here on the terrace looking out over a serene Aegean sea, with barely a whisper of breeze and a watery sun peeping through the haze, listening to children playing in the street, to chickens clucking and neighbours hollering greetings to each other up and down the inclined streets of Glossa in Skopelos, I feel safe and secure in the knowledge that, should anything untoward happen, I have the might of the British Empire on permanent standby to assist me in my hour of need.

Who says so? Why, William Hague of course. Career politician, famous for addressing his party conference at an age when most teenagers were still hanging around bike sheds smoking furtive fags and leafing through well-thumbed pages of Mayfair magazine.

Hague has advised me, (not just me of course, but every ex-pat Brit and indeed holidaymaker in Greece) to advise the British Consulate in Athens of our presence, so that in the event of civil unrest in the country, we can be evacuated and repatriated. Dragged, kicking and screaming onto some Royal Navy gunboat no doubt, whilst men in camouflage gear hold back the hordes of marauding natives by threatening them with sharp sticks.

Athens and Thessaloniki have seen some demonstrations, brought about by rising prices and wages and pensions being slashed. There are 30% more homeless people on the streets of Athens than a year ago. Think of the outcry if that were to happen in London?
By June, the minimum wage for an entire month will be cut to about 600 euros, that’s about £508 GROSS at today’s exchange rate, or even using the standard model of 37.5 hours per week, £3.39 per hour.

In fact, according to the BBC News website, Greek workers work the longest hours of anyone in Europe. They work 40% more hours than the Germans. Lazy? I don’t think so.

Demonstrations are the result of frustration at the political situation, at the unreasonable demands of the EU, at the interference at the most basic level in the affairs of the economy. Last year in the UK, there were widespread riots and looting in many major cities because people were “a bit miffed” and just fancied nicking stuff. Where was the mass evacuation then?

Barely a month ago, I looked at the website of the local newspaper where I used to live in the UK. One headline grabbed my attention, and bearing in mind this is a fairly normal provincial town in the North West:

“Headless corpse found on fire in town centre had been blasted by shotgun”.

Yes indeed, in the early hours of a January morning, police were called to a burning body at the side of the main thoroughfare of the town. Fortunately, the severed head was found nearby which “would aid identification”. This was a result of so-called gangland violence.

Excuse me if I choose to take my chances here. I neither need nor want rescuing. Thank you Mr Hague, but please keep the might of Britain for rescuing and protecting your citizens from gangland violence in the U.K

For all his glib and alarmist comments, there is a serious point to be made. Greece has been, and will continue to be a popular holiday destination. The tourism industry here is one that has potential to grow and improve, and to help the Greek people out of the economic hole in which they find themselves. On top of that, whatever Hague says, the Greeks are warm, friendly, welcoming, fiercely proud yet unfailingly… well nice.

If you’re taking a holiday this year, if you’ve been before or are thinking of a first time visit, come to Greece. You’ll love it.

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These new building regulations have been introduced into law by the Greek government in January 2012.

The new regulations are important for all Greek property owners who own land and are planning to build now or in the future. They refer to all building plots of land inside or outside the town plan.

In Skopelos and Glossa there used to be something called the “zone” which was the land between the town boundary and 500 metres outside the boundary. In the past it was possible to build in the zone on a piece of land of at least 1,000 sq metres – instead of the 4,000 outside the town plan. Then this was changed to a minimum of 2,000 sq metres.

The zone was then abolished in Skopelos Town as part of the “Natura” scheme (Sustainable Development in Greece.)

Recent changes to the law mean that inside the town boundaries you can build as follows:

New regulations for building within the settlement boundaries – Skopelos

Land up to 200 sq metres – You can build a house up to 200 sq metres provided you leave 40% of the land not built on.
Land between 200 and 400 sq metres – You can build a house up to 240 sq metres provided you leave 40% of the land not built on.
Land over 700 sq metres – You can build a house up to 400 sq metres.

New regulations for building outside the settlement boundaries – Skopelos

In the Zone, outside the boundaries in Glossa, Skopelos only - You can build up to 200 sq metres on a piece of land of at least 2,000 sq metres.

Outside the boundary of the town plan – You can build up to 240 sq metres on a piece of land of which at least 4,000 sq metres. The land must be in one piece and certified to be clear of forest land. (That is land which is not classed as forest.) You must get a certificate from the Forestry Department that at least 4,000 sq metres of your property is non-forest in order to obtain a building permit,

In an archaeological area – You must also get a certificate from the Archaeological Department. They may impose restrictions on exactly where you can build.

This last regulation is the one which has been giving rise to rumours about 4,000 becoming 10,000.

If you have a very large property – e.g: 20,000 sq metres – and you wish to divide it to sell to different people, you must split it into pieces of at least 10,000 sq metres each.

Note: These new building laws apply in Skopelos. Other islands may be different.

We advise you to contact your lawyer and Civil Engineer for conformation of the new building regulations and the minimum size of land required to build in your area before you build on your plot of land on the Greek Island that you are on.

With kind regards

Angels Greek Island Homes and Glossa Houses.

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It is an inescapable fact that most people see the Greek islands as a summer destination. There are some that also take advantage of the Spring and Autumn – cooler than the mad heat of July and August, a delight for nature spotters with flora and fauna abounding, and quieter without the mad scramble for a prime six square feet of beach.

Few, apart from some hardy and adventurous types, see the islands as a place to go in the winter. Travel is more complicated and subject to the vagaries of the weather, as is the supply of both water and electricity. You see being an island, Skopelos is in the middle of a ‘daisy chain’ of electricity supply that comes from the mainland, via undersea cable to Skiathos, Skopelos and then on to Alonissos. An interruption to that supply, and the whole island can be without power for several hours. It pays to be prepared. Gas lanterns, candles and camping stoves are available in most supermarkets.

That said, Glossa is a magical place in winter. Ignore the fact that many restaurants close, that half the village move to the mainland and the other half hibernate indoors, as much as possible Glossa becomes a proper village again as opposed to a tourist destination.

Awaking this morning to a light dusting of snow, (yes, snow, in the Greek islands), I decided to take a walk through the village, and then beyond towards the north side of the island. The village streets, normally resonating as sounds bounce off stone surfaces, seemed dulled as the snow softened any echoes.

There were children playing, genuinely thrilled by the cold, white powder, something they perhaps only see every three or four years. The ladies, muffled against the cold carried on the basic daily rituals of visiting the bakery for bread, and carefully choosing their vegetables from the shop. The old men ensconced in the kafeneion with hot, sweet elliniko kafe, playing cards or tavli (backgammon), various tradesmen grafting in workshops with wood or iron, windows steamy with the output from the somba, or woodburning stove.

Meanwhile, in the distance the faint crack of a small-bore rifle as some of the men go hunting, and another small but edible animal bites the dust.

I loved it. Yes, Glossa is a magical place in winter. Quiet, cold, windy, but magical. However, roll on the spring and a different kind of magic.

A brief word on the Greek economy: this is a discussion often heard in the cafe’s. Yes, Greece has problems. But so do Italy, Portugal, Ireland, Spain and to no small extent the UK. It is a European and in fact worldwide issue.

The vast majority of Greeks, despite many peoples’ preconceptions, are honest, hardworking and honourable people. They have seen their salaries slashed, the pensions reduced, taxes hiked, prices in the shops increased and a perceived handover of economic control to the EU. Rioters take to the streets of Athens, and the islanders look on in equal bemusement as non-Greeks.

Contact Lou Traki or Angels Greek Island Homes HERE

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These new regulations are important for all owners of Greek property who own land and are planning to build now or in the future. They refer to all building plots of land inside or outside the town plan.

The Greek goverment is changing the minimum size of land required to build. Anybody who owns land smaller than the new required amount will be unable to build unless they have planning permission already submitted. This means that if you have bought a piece of land legally under Greek Law that was the required minimum size of 4,000 square metres outside the town plan and are waiting to raise enough funds to build your house on it, or are keeping it for your retirement, unless you have building permission already submitted you will not be allowed to build on it.

We are still waiting conformation of the exact new minimum size required by law to build outside the settlement boundaries to be finalised on Skopelos but it is rumoured to be a minimun of 8,000 or 10,000 square metres. (Remember the need for Forest Department clearance – you will need to have 8,000 or 10,000 sq clear of forest. Many large plots e.g. 12,000 sq might be un-buildable because 3,500 could be classified as forest.)

We advise you to contact your lawyer for conformation of the new minimum size of land required to build as it may of been already introduced into law in your area.

We have been informed that this new law may be contested and when we know the outcome we will update this post as to what the new minimum size is.

Below are the new regulations for building within the settlement boundaries. This has basicaly changed from 30% of land undeveloped to 40% of land undeveloped.

New regulations for building within the settlement boundaries – Skopelos

Land up to 200 sq metres -  you can build a house up to 200 sq metres provided you leave 40% of the land not built on.
Land between 200 and 400 sq metres – you can build a house up to 240 sq metres provided you leave 40% of the land not built on.
Land over 700 sq metres – you can build a house up to 400 sq metres.

More to follow…

With kind regards
Angels Greek Island Homes

Below is a question and answer email between Dave of Cheltenham and a Civil Engineer about the new building regulations and planning permission in Greece.

Dave of Cheltenham says...
We have already started the design of our villa. We have instructed a Civil Engineer to commence the design and are due to receive a draft copy of the design this week. We have been advised that the permission prices have increased due to the compulsory kenak.

We are told that this is a new energy saving plan which includes electrical, plumbing, air-conditioning, water design plans from the mechanical engineer. The permission cost now for  a 150 m2 plus 50 m2 basement is 22.000 euro (15.500 + 6.500 taxes), without a swimming pool.

I have inserted questions we sent to our Civil Engineer, his response is in Bold

Please can you clarify a couple of points – sorry if I am repeating myself but we are feeling the pressure a bit and obviously are extremely concerned that nothing will go wrong and leave us owners of a bit of land which is way too small to build on etc…

Once you have submitted the plans (possibly within the next few days, as you suggested) does this mean that we are protecting and securing our position regardless of any pending law changes?  Yes, from what we are told from the planning department, if your plans have been submitted you are then covered regardless of any new change that may occur.

I.e. does this then mean we have permission to build a villa on our land regardless of whatever laws are passed after we have submitted the plans?

Yes

You state that the remainder of the money is payable when the plans are passed (you mention possibly in a few months). Is there any possibility that when we want to proceed to get the plans passed they may be rejected or planning consent denied? Or do you mean that at the time the plans are submitted, we are granted interim approval and the final approval is assured?

The application is to get a protocol number saying that you have registered plans to build. This is enough to cover you for any new law change. Your plans will not be rejected or planning consent withdrawn up to this stage. In order to get a protocol number you have to submit full plans to the department. Once they are lodged with this department you can make changes to the plans and re-submit the changes without having to start the whole process over again. They will not give full permission though until the final payment is made(6500 euro). You need the full permission in order to be able to build.

My partner and I both feel that once the plans are submitted, we would obviously be happier if we get final approval as soon as is practicable.  We were due to come and do all this with you in June.  Will June be too late to come and finalise the plans and proceed to final approval – or do you think we should come over sooner (preferably once the direct flights to Crete have started again)

At the moment , we are told you are ok in June. If/when the law change comes in they usually give a 6 month time limit for everybody to complete plans already lodged with them. This means we can submit basic plans and designs (the size of house is the most important at this point as you won’t be able to change it. Once submitted you can work in more detail your internal floor plans etc which means you don’t have to panic about the internal layouts now. We can submit the plans for a 150+/- m2 house now and then over the next few months you can work it through a little better. Plans for a swimming pool can be submitted later at additional cost.

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It is a slow day in a little Greek Village. The rain is beating down and the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit.

On this particular day a rich German tourist is driving through the village, stops at the local hotel and lays a 100 Euro note on the desk, telling the hotel owner he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night. The owner gives him some keys and, as soon as the visitor has walked upstairs, the hotelier grabs the 100 Euro note and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher.

The butcher takes the 100 Euro note and runs down the street to repay his debt to the pig farmer. The pig farmer takes the 100 Euro note and heads off to pay his bill at the supplier of feed and fuel.

The guy at the Farmers’ Co-op takes the 100 Euro note and runs to pay his drinks bill at the taverna. The publican slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at the bar, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer him “services” on credit.

The hooker then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the hotel owner with the 100 Euro note. The hotel proprietor then places the 100 Euro note back on the counter so the rich traveller will not suspect anything.

At that moment, the traveller comes down the stairs, picks up the 100 Euro note, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money, and leaves town.

No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole village is now out of debt and looking to the future with a lot more optimism.

This is how the “Greek Bailout Package works”!

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I have decided to publish this email from George in Australia because since starting my site in May 2005, this is the first email I have received of this nature. I do not know why he sent it to me; he is not a client of mine. I sell property in Skopelos and Skiathos. He is highlighting problems facing him in Mytilini Lesvos. Maybe he is sending his email to all property websites that have business or connections to Greece out of frustration. Whatever his reason is, I feel for his predicament and his experience demonstrates that the dream can sometimes go wrong.  Whatever the motive, Angels Greek Island Homes is here to help guide you through the roses and the thorns of buying property and living in Greece. I will tell you about the ‘good’ and the ‘bad’. I have pages about legal guides and building a house in Greece. I also have a blog where people are able to read about the latest Greek property tax laws or other articles relating to Greece, good or bad.

Remember when buying in another country from where you reside you are embarking on an adventure, especially so if you don’t speak the language or have no family connections, see Lou Traki’s Blog. Hopefully you will have the best experience of your life and will be happy in the outcome, but remember as George’s story demonstrates, sometimes things can go wrong. Whatever George’s intentions are for sending me his email, I wish him well and feel sorry that his experience has been a bad one. I also wish all of you visiting or living in Greece well for the New Year ahead and we are already thinking about how soon we can take a return flight to our ‘Greek life’ in 2012.

But for now, from us to you, we wish you the very best happiness for 2012 from Angels Greek Island Homes.

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Email From: George

To:info@angelsgreekislandhomes.com

Date28 December 2011 04:16

Subject: Do not buy Real Estate In Greece

Dear Sir / Madam

Can you advise people not to buy Greece and how to deal with neighbours who go and make claims on thoroughfares and then build on them and get 2 witnesses to say that they owned it and claim ownership thus blocking the entrance to your property..

This is exactly what happened to me in Mytilini and my local council Polixnitos advised me that I am a foreigner and am not welcome as the council staff were the ones building this home after hours.

The Polidimia in Lesvos works on kickbacks and depending on who you pay off will depend on what gets done as I was asked to leave and fined for complaining about the neighbour who was also a friend of

The person who trespassed… and built on this thoroughfare.

I can only come to one conclusion about Greece and that is everyone is corrupt and even the police has a price…There is no justice in Greece and only criminals and crooks run Greece..

You either have to join them or leave the country. Greece must be very proud of its public servants, and people..

The day a government sacks them will be the day I rejoice..

George

Australia

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Dear Mr Legrand,

Thank you for your message, which was forwarded to EUROPE DIRECT by the Audiovisual Services of the Commission. EUROPE DIRECT is an information service of the European Union (EU) which provides citizens and businesses with answers to questions of a general nature about the EU. You can find further information about EUROPE DIRECT at:

europa.eu/europedirect/

The legal text you refer to in your email (C-155/09) is a judgment by the Court of Justice of the European Union, in which the Court rules on a case brought against the Hellenic Republic for failure to fulfil its obligations under EU law. The Court ruled that the Greek tax legislation (“Law 1078/1980”) that grants exemption from the tax payable on the purchase of a first residential property only to persons residing in Greece is contrary to EU principles. This judgment is EU law and the Member State must comply with it without delay.

Greek tax legislation which grants exemption from the tax payable on the purchase of a first residential property only to persons residing in Greece is contrary to European Union principles:

Court of Justice of the European Union PRESS RELEASE No 1/11 Luxembourg, 20 January 2011
curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2011-01/cp110001en.pdf

You may also want to search for the complete text of the judgment on the website of the Court of Justice:
www.curia.europa.eu/jcms/jcms/j_6/
(Please insert “C-155/09” in the field “Case no”.)

For further questions you may contact the Court of Justice of the European Union directly by using the following webform:
www.curia.europa.eu/jcms/jcms/T5_5133/

We hope that this information will be of use to you and remain at your disposal should you have further questions about the EU.

With kind regards,

EUROPE DIRECT Contact Centre
www.europa.eu – your shortcut to the EU!
Disclaimer
Please note: We will try to ensure that you receive the information requested, or to direct you to an appropriate source. However, we are unable to comment on specific issues pertaining to EU policy, and information provided by EUROPE DIRECT may not be considered as legally binding.

================

Charles Legrand adds:

Not sure I will pursue my case – as the ”understanding / feedback / knowledge” within the Ministry of Finance and the Tax Authority – is at best confused – at worst very-confused.  Readers might be able to get something back with the help of a legal beagle here in Greece.

We have received a Tax assessment form with an amount to pay today.
We have been asked to pay taxes on our property (only one residence).
The Tax demand has come from the Foreigner’s Tax office in Athens
The Taxes are various – covering ”supposed income that you have to run the residence”
Included is a Tax for Community charges and other such taxes for having the residence here.

The Ministry of Finance said when I asked them to clarify – ”This law including non resident Expats is something of a mistake & has caused confusion – we have advised the Foreign Tax folks, but can’t direct them to adhere”.

My personal take on all of this:  I guess a Law has been passed recently that includes Expats living in Greece. The most likely reason for our inclusion in my opinion is that Government of Hellas is looking to ”extract” monies from any source possible due to the austerity measures.

In Summary: ”Taxes & Death are certainties”.

We will be paying this tax and discussing with our Accountant what we do in the future. (Tax due end of Dec 2011)

Personally I think as follows: I do believe this might be something that stays with us going forward.

Charles

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Things have got very quiet here, many people have left or gone into an early hibernation as they prepare for the winter. It has been quite cold and cloudy, not much sun. There is no more referendum and the Prime Minister has resigned. I’ve also heard that the local Town Hall people in Skopelos have had their salaries cut by 50%, so things are getting serious. The austerity measures are very bad. A Greek friend of mine living in Skopelos told me the Greek Government can take everything from him except his smile. They tried to take it but he wouldn’t let them…

The property tax in Skopelos will be 3 euro per square metre, and anyone who pays electric and has a tax number will have to pay. However, the electric company have complained that they will effectively be unpaid tax collectors and are talking about boycotting it as there will be a hell of a lot of administration work for them to do. Incidentally, Volos is rated at 6 euro and Thessaloniki at 9 euro!

Which brings me to living in Greece in November 2011

The house that Jack didn’t build…

Given the aforementioned, (or if you’re reading this in anti-chronological order, the after-mentioned), you would have to be bonkers to want to live in Greece. This was 2007 remember, so it was pre- banking collapses, global economic meltdown, new property taxes, Greek referendum, new coalition Government with economist Lucas Papademos as Prime Minister, a eurozone demand that a paper is signed by the Greek Government so there is no futher negotiation or hiccups over the bailout agreement and a pint in the local pub didn’t need a second mortgage.

We had certain set criteria which we had discussed, agreed and cast in stone: We didn’t want to buy, only rent; we didn’t want a ruin or massive restoration project and we DEFINITELY didn’t want the first house we saw.

So after agreeing to buy the first house we saw, a massive restoration project but with spectacular views and almost 1000 square metres of land, we pronounced ourselves happy and ran back to England to await the massive realisation and cognitive dissonance of what we had done.

“No problem”, I said, full of optimism. “We’ll just sell our house here and move over to Glossa Skopelos to live, and then take it from there. What on earth can go wrong?” The answer came with the resounding crash of the American sub-prime mortgage market, widely acknowledged as the catalyst of the 2008 crisis.

After four years of ‘For Sale’ signs outside our house – yes, that’s four years…in 2011 we finally pitched up in Glossa Skopelos, O.K so the economic situation in Greece and timing could not be worse. But we were here, my wife for a month and me, for the duration.

And that more or less brings us up to now.

Apart, that is, from the motorbike, horse, chickens, dog, cats and other sundry encumbrances.

Well, the horse is Yianni’s. He’s gone off to Europe for a few weeks with his wife to see their grand-daughter and I’ve agreed to look after it while they are away.

So I’m a mug…. I don’t know anything about horses. So far it only entails going to their house for about half an hour every morning and giving it straw as well as shovelling sh1t, but being a “stupid English” I’m also buying it carrots, apples and cereals from the supermarket.

Not to mention feeding their chickens (although the eggs are a bonus) and their dog and cat!

Life in Glossa Skopelos, what can I say? The rest can wait for the next instalment…

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Filippos Petsalnikos

The new property tax in Greece will range from €0.50 cents to €20.00 and taxes each square metre of homes according to the age of the building (the older the building, the less tax pecentage), tax value and average house prices of the neighbourhood. This new tax will be in effect for a period of three years and will be collected in instalments through electricity bills. Those who will not pay or cannot pay will have their electricity cut off. It wil start from October 2011.

All property owners in Greece are required to pay this new tax whether you live in Greece or not.

Further updates to follow…

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